Wednesday, July 12, 2006
Are We Lying in the Name of Evangelism?
Dear Friends,
In several evangelistic sermons I have heard in Baptist churches, the preacher has said something like this:
Is this a lie? Let's see from the scriptures.
(Ephesians 1:4-6) For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love (5) he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-- (6) to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
In several evangelistic sermons I have heard in Baptist churches, the preacher has said something like this:
"You'd better pray to receive Christ right now, because if you don't, a car might hit you on your way out of the church tonight, and you'd go straight to hell."
Is this a lie? Let's see from the scriptures.
(Ephesians 1:4-6) For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love (5) he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-- (6) to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
In the light of this scripture, I think a preacher who uses "now or never" statements like the one above is lying to two different kinds of people.
First, he is lying to those who have not been predestined to be adopted as sons. He is telling them that they should "pray to receive Christ," even though they do not believe in Him. How can someone do that? If a person believes the message of the Gospel about Jesus Christ, he is saved already, before praying any kind of prayer. If he has not believed, then no kind of praying of a certain prayer will have any saving effect on him.
Second, he is lying to those who have been predestined to be adopted as sons. He is telling them that they might be saved, as long as they get saved right now, but that they might not be saved, if they die of accident before they get saved. How could that be true? If God predestined someone for adoption before the creation of the world, how can God's plans be thwarted by a speeding driver or a careless pedestrian? When God decides to adopt someone, He will do so.
Do not get me wrong. I do believe that the message should be preached:
"The amazing life of Jesus of Nazareth showed Him to be God's Chosen One. He was killed by crucifixion, taking the punishment for our rebellion against God upon Himself. God raised Him from the dead, and many witnesses saw Him alive. God exalted Him to a throne in Heaven, and he is now Judge of all mankind and King of Kings. He is serving as the only mediator between man and God, granting repentance and eternal life to all who will believe in Him. Therefore, believe in Him, turn away from your sins, and be baptized."
But please, dear friends, let's not tell them that it's "now or never." Just tell them the Gospel, accurately and boldly, and let the Holy Spirit do His work.
Love in Christ,
Jeff
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Jeff,
What about the idea of living a full life with Christ while we are here on earth? Are we also predestined to meet Him at a certain time? Or just at some time? If just at some time during our life, then surely we should urge the people to meet Jesus now, so their lives can be lived in the full abundance God intends for his adopted children for the greatest possible amount of time.
(I do not have enough knowledge to discuss the more general predestination question one way or the other).
What about the idea of living a full life with Christ while we are here on earth? Are we also predestined to meet Him at a certain time? Or just at some time? If just at some time during our life, then surely we should urge the people to meet Jesus now, so their lives can be lived in the full abundance God intends for his adopted children for the greatest possible amount of time.
(I do not have enough knowledge to discuss the more general predestination question one way or the other).
Dear Miss Hawker,
I almost raised that point myself in the post, but did not know exactly what to say about it. I do agree with you that the one chosen of God for salvation should believe, repent, and be baptized NOW rather than LATER for the reasons you stated.
Be that as it may, it is still lying to tell him that he has to believe NOW or NEVER.
As a minister with children, how do you counsel a child who is expressing interest in being saved? Specifically, how do you avoid telling an interested, yet unbelieving child, "Pray this prayer. Now you're saved, don't doubt it!"?
Love in Christ,
Jeff
I almost raised that point myself in the post, but did not know exactly what to say about it. I do agree with you that the one chosen of God for salvation should believe, repent, and be baptized NOW rather than LATER for the reasons you stated.
Be that as it may, it is still lying to tell him that he has to believe NOW or NEVER.
As a minister with children, how do you counsel a child who is expressing interest in being saved? Specifically, how do you avoid telling an interested, yet unbelieving child, "Pray this prayer. Now you're saved, don't doubt it!"?
Love in Christ,
Jeff
Jeff,
I appreciate where you're coming from on this, as we've discussed almost this very thing. You have used some strong terminology here, and I'd like you to consider softening a bit.
Consider the paraphrase you offered, some version of which we've all heard: "You'd better pray to receive Christ right now, because if you don't, a car might hit you on your way out of the church tonight, and you'd go straight to hell."
If you told someone this, it would most certainly be a lie, because you are convinced that if God has purposed to save that person, nothing will interfere with that salvation. For you to use those words would be an intentional deception on your part.
But there are honest preachers of the Word out there who read the same Bible, and are convinced that people are able to resist the drawing of the Father to salvation by faith in Christ. If they honestly believe that to be the case, they could in good conscience utter the sentence above, and they would not be lying, because there is no intent to deceive.
Whether they are, in fact, deceiving is another matter, and one on which you are well able to make an argument. You are eloquent and persuasive in defense of your fatalistic theology (I'M KIDDING!), and I don't think you need to bring the ninth commandment into the discussion in order to make your point.
Okay, I'm done. Be gentle with me...
;-)
I appreciate where you're coming from on this, as we've discussed almost this very thing. You have used some strong terminology here, and I'd like you to consider softening a bit.
Consider the paraphrase you offered, some version of which we've all heard: "You'd better pray to receive Christ right now, because if you don't, a car might hit you on your way out of the church tonight, and you'd go straight to hell."
If you told someone this, it would most certainly be a lie, because you are convinced that if God has purposed to save that person, nothing will interfere with that salvation. For you to use those words would be an intentional deception on your part.
But there are honest preachers of the Word out there who read the same Bible, and are convinced that people are able to resist the drawing of the Father to salvation by faith in Christ. If they honestly believe that to be the case, they could in good conscience utter the sentence above, and they would not be lying, because there is no intent to deceive.
Whether they are, in fact, deceiving is another matter, and one on which you are well able to make an argument. You are eloquent and persuasive in defense of your fatalistic theology (I'M KIDDING!), and I don't think you need to bring the ninth commandment into the discussion in order to make your point.
Okay, I'm done. Be gentle with me...
;-)
I agree the scare tactic of dying in a car wreck after church is over is emotional and ultimately fruitless.
I have taken the position in preaching the gospel by telling them that the Holy Spirit's power is absolutely necessary for you to come to Christ (John 6:44), and the reality of grace is that God is not obligated to save anyone much less everyone.
Therefore, if you are thinking that you are going to wait until just before you die and repent so you can squeeze into heaven by the skin of your teeth, you have misunderstood your own sinful state and inability to come to Christ on your own power. (This mindset is the result of Arminian preaching)
I press on them the fear of the Lord and call upon them to repent and believe on Christ alone as Savior and Lord.
CR
I have taken the position in preaching the gospel by telling them that the Holy Spirit's power is absolutely necessary for you to come to Christ (John 6:44), and the reality of grace is that God is not obligated to save anyone much less everyone.
Therefore, if you are thinking that you are going to wait until just before you die and repent so you can squeeze into heaven by the skin of your teeth, you have misunderstood your own sinful state and inability to come to Christ on your own power. (This mindset is the result of Arminian preaching)
I press on them the fear of the Lord and call upon them to repent and believe on Christ alone as Savior and Lord.
CR
Dear Brother Wes,
You are right. If the preacher says it in good conscience, believing it to be true, then I suppose he is not lying.
But what good is a blog if you can't accuse your fellow Baptists of terrrible errors using inflammatory language. If we stop that altogether, most Baptist Blogging will go out of business, and everyone will be left with just your blog to read!
Let me try something here:
If you say to me, "Jeff, I am going to Los Angelas on vacation," then I say to someone else, "Wes is going to Las Vegas to gamble," have I lied? Yes, most people would say that I have lied. What if I said, "I have, in good conscience, after studying what Wes told me, come to the conclusions that Wes went to Las Vegas"? Would it still be a lie?
I am trying out this analogy because although the questions regarding Arminianism are not simple, the reading of the passage that I cited absolutely dis-allows this now-or-never evangelistic presentation. This just doesn't work:
"God chose you before the world was created to be sprinkled with the blood of Jesus and conformed to His image. But you might not be."
Brother Christopher,
Your last sentence was very helpful to me:
"I press on them the fear of the Lord and call upon them to repent and believe on Christ alone as Savior and Lord."
Do you, though, think that a person should be called upon to repent, then believe? It seems to me that believing the Gospel message preceeds repentance.
Love in Christ,
Jeff
You are right. If the preacher says it in good conscience, believing it to be true, then I suppose he is not lying.
But what good is a blog if you can't accuse your fellow Baptists of terrrible errors using inflammatory language. If we stop that altogether, most Baptist Blogging will go out of business, and everyone will be left with just your blog to read!
Let me try something here:
If you say to me, "Jeff, I am going to Los Angelas on vacation," then I say to someone else, "Wes is going to Las Vegas to gamble," have I lied? Yes, most people would say that I have lied. What if I said, "I have, in good conscience, after studying what Wes told me, come to the conclusions that Wes went to Las Vegas"? Would it still be a lie?
I am trying out this analogy because although the questions regarding Arminianism are not simple, the reading of the passage that I cited absolutely dis-allows this now-or-never evangelistic presentation. This just doesn't work:
"God chose you before the world was created to be sprinkled with the blood of Jesus and conformed to His image. But you might not be."
Brother Christopher,
Your last sentence was very helpful to me:
"I press on them the fear of the Lord and call upon them to repent and believe on Christ alone as Savior and Lord."
Do you, though, think that a person should be called upon to repent, then believe? It seems to me that believing the Gospel message preceeds repentance.
Love in Christ,
Jeff
Corinthians 5:20-6:2:
"We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
As God's fellow workers we urge you not to receive God's grace in vain. For he says,
'In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you.' I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation."
I agree about the scare tactics and attempts at manipulation, Jeff. They are generally the working of the flesh. However, your words can EASILY be taken too far. Those who are preaching and those who are hearing should have a sense of urgency about their souls. On this point, I think we have clarity in the Bible. Consider Jesus' parables about the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) and the Ten Virgins (Matt. 25). There is urgency in the tone of those parables. There is finality. Those are just a couple of many examples. I agree with you about the manipulation, but you have to throw out a great deal of the Bible to not preach salvation with urgency.
I do not want to assume too much. You might not have been saying that. But, your words do quickly lead us to that position, in my opinion. Thanks for getting us thinking!
"We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
As God's fellow workers we urge you not to receive God's grace in vain. For he says,
'In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you.' I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation."
I agree about the scare tactics and attempts at manipulation, Jeff. They are generally the working of the flesh. However, your words can EASILY be taken too far. Those who are preaching and those who are hearing should have a sense of urgency about their souls. On this point, I think we have clarity in the Bible. Consider Jesus' parables about the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) and the Ten Virgins (Matt. 25). There is urgency in the tone of those parables. There is finality. Those are just a couple of many examples. I agree with you about the manipulation, but you have to throw out a great deal of the Bible to not preach salvation with urgency.
I do not want to assume too much. You might not have been saying that. But, your words do quickly lead us to that position, in my opinion. Thanks for getting us thinking!
# posted by 
: 9:25 AM
: 9:25 AM
Come on, Alan, unfounded assumptions are FUN! ;-)
Jeff,
My point was simply that lying requires having the intent to deceive.
Those who believe in the Bible instead of a man-made, 500-year-old system that does violence to our God-given free will and makes a mockery of individual culpability for sin may truly believe that God's drawing can be resisted. For them to not preach with urgency would be sin.
Man, picking on Calvinists is fun! You know I've got nothing but love for you, right? ;-)
Manipulation in order to force a decision is wrong, but urgency, as Alan said, is certainly biblical, especially for someone with an understanding of salvation that differs from yours.
My apologies for the blatantly unfair characterizations above; sometimes I just can't help myself...
Jeff,
My point was simply that lying requires having the intent to deceive.
Those who believe in the Bible instead of a man-made, 500-year-old system that does violence to our God-given free will and makes a mockery of individual culpability for sin may truly believe that God's drawing can be resisted. For them to not preach with urgency would be sin.
Man, picking on Calvinists is fun! You know I've got nothing but love for you, right? ;-)
Manipulation in order to force a decision is wrong, but urgency, as Alan said, is certainly biblical, especially for someone with an understanding of salvation that differs from yours.
My apologies for the blatantly unfair characterizations above; sometimes I just can't help myself...
Dear Brother Alan,
You are absolutely right about urgency. A preacher who preaches the Gospel should command the sinner to believe, repent, and be baptized right now, and the sinner should believe right now!
BUT, when the preacher convinces the one who is interested, but does not actually believe, to pray and prayer and be baptized by falsely teaching him that he can be saved right now, but might not be saved if he considers it further, that preacher is creating something false.
Dear Brother Wes,
When are you going to get Calvinated, so that you can really preach the Gospel?!? :)
Love in Christ,
Jeff
You are absolutely right about urgency. A preacher who preaches the Gospel should command the sinner to believe, repent, and be baptized right now, and the sinner should believe right now!
BUT, when the preacher convinces the one who is interested, but does not actually believe, to pray and prayer and be baptized by falsely teaching him that he can be saved right now, but might not be saved if he considers it further, that preacher is creating something false.
Dear Brother Wes,
When are you going to get Calvinated, so that you can really preach the Gospel?!? :)
Love in Christ,
Jeff
Jeff,
The statement "repent and believe" seems a natural way to state the command when it comes out of my mouth. However, I'm not saying that repentance is void of belief or vice versa.
My admonishment to "repent and believe" is more of a simultaneous response to the gospel rather than an order of 1st, then 2nd.
However, I recognize that both repentance and faith are gifts from God bestowed upon sinners through effectual calling. (See my blog post for more information)
God Bless,
CR
The statement "repent and believe" seems a natural way to state the command when it comes out of my mouth. However, I'm not saying that repentance is void of belief or vice versa.
My admonishment to "repent and believe" is more of a simultaneous response to the gospel rather than an order of 1st, then 2nd.
However, I recognize that both repentance and faith are gifts from God bestowed upon sinners through effectual calling. (See my blog post for more information)
God Bless,
CR
Gotcha. I totally agree. When I am sharing the gospel with someone (this is obviously easier one-on-one, I am always listening for guidance for the Holy Spirit and am trying to discern if faith is arising in the person's heart. I can get decisions for Christ in my own strength. I can manipulate and cajole. I cannot regenerate people. That is the Holy Spirit's job through the preaching of the gospel. However, I am to be urgent and to make a strong appeal.
Some folks (myself included), on the basis of not wanting to bring in human agency become so passive in their gospel presentation and appeal, that we do not pray for the power of the Holy Spirit, we do not pray that God would open the heart's of sinners, and we just expect to mumble out the words of the gospel without any power whatsoever. Paul decidedly preached against that and said that we need the power of the Holy Spirit in the preaching of the gospel (1 Cor. 2:1-5). Sometimes, in our rush to NOT have any human element, we also dismiss requesting and submitting to the presence of the Holy Spirit and we just present the facts. Both manipulation and just presenting the facts are/can be fleshly works because we MUST have the power of the Holy Spirit to draw men unto Christ.
Some folks (myself included), on the basis of not wanting to bring in human agency become so passive in their gospel presentation and appeal, that we do not pray for the power of the Holy Spirit, we do not pray that God would open the heart's of sinners, and we just expect to mumble out the words of the gospel without any power whatsoever. Paul decidedly preached against that and said that we need the power of the Holy Spirit in the preaching of the gospel (1 Cor. 2:1-5). Sometimes, in our rush to NOT have any human element, we also dismiss requesting and submitting to the presence of the Holy Spirit and we just present the facts. Both manipulation and just presenting the facts are/can be fleshly works because we MUST have the power of the Holy Spirit to draw men unto Christ.
# posted by : 3:35 PM
: 3:35 PM
Dear Brother Christopher,
Belief/faith and repentance are linked, to be sure. Acts 2 seems to indicate that Peter's hearers believed during his sermon, then were commanded to repent. But I checked the BFM (1963), and it indicates that both faith and repentance flow out of regeneration, which happens before both. I think we both need to study this some more!
Dear Brother Alan,
Well said. Thank you for the look at the other side of this coin. Have you written any books, or had anything else published? Your sweet Christian spirit comes across very well in what you write.
Love in Christ,
Jeff
Belief/faith and repentance are linked, to be sure. Acts 2 seems to indicate that Peter's hearers believed during his sermon, then were commanded to repent. But I checked the BFM (1963), and it indicates that both faith and repentance flow out of regeneration, which happens before both. I think we both need to study this some more!
Dear Brother Alan,
Well said. Thank you for the look at the other side of this coin. Have you written any books, or had anything else published? Your sweet Christian spirit comes across very well in what you write.
Love in Christ,
Jeff
I can attest to my Pastor's preaching, teaching and making disciples.
Brother Jeff preaches GOD'S WORD and his Church is filled with the HOLY SPIRIT working in his Congregation. I'm new in Brother Jeff's church and I saw his HEART at an Association meeting, thus I became a follower of Brother Jeff.
Brother Jeff is responsible for my reading Blogs and now I have my own
Blog. Reading your Blog's enables me to see your HEART'S. Most of you know Brother Jeff and we have all been corrected at one time or other, by one who walks with in the SPIRIT Deputy What-ma-call-it. I'm a senior Citizen so don't pick on me, pick on Brother Jeff.
I don't believe in ICON'S.
A Brother in CHRIST
Brother Jeff preaches GOD'S WORD and his Church is filled with the HOLY SPIRIT working in his Congregation. I'm new in Brother Jeff's church and I saw his HEART at an Association meeting, thus I became a follower of Brother Jeff.
Brother Jeff is responsible for my reading Blogs and now I have my own
Blog. Reading your Blog's enables me to see your HEART'S. Most of you know Brother Jeff and we have all been corrected at one time or other, by one who walks with in the SPIRIT Deputy What-ma-call-it. I'm a senior Citizen so don't pick on me, pick on Brother Jeff.
I don't believe in ICON'S.
A Brother in CHRIST
I get concerned with the churches who just want to get "em" down the isle. We aren't used car salemen, we are ministers! We should tell the good news but leave the decsion to the Holy Spirit!
I said,
"However, I recognize that both repentance and faith are gifts from God bestowed upon sinners through effectual calling. (See my blog post for more information)"
And Jeff replied,
"Dear Brother Christopher,
Belief/faith and repentance are linked, to be sure. Acts 2 seems to indicate that Peter's hearers believed during his sermon, then were commanded to repent. But I checked the BFM (1963), and it indicates that both faith and repentance flow out of regeneration, which happens before both. I think we both need to study this some more!"
I agree that regeneration is first and thus I referenced "effectual calling" and that both "faith and repentance are gifts from God" and they are given by grace in the work of "regeneration".
God Bless
CR
I posted "Paige Patterson stated, 'I see no biblical evidence for Irresistible Grace'. Hugh?"
You can view my blog to see what I've written on "Irresistible Grace"
God Bless,
CR
Post a Comment
"However, I recognize that both repentance and faith are gifts from God bestowed upon sinners through effectual calling. (See my blog post for more information)"
And Jeff replied,
"Dear Brother Christopher,
Belief/faith and repentance are linked, to be sure. Acts 2 seems to indicate that Peter's hearers believed during his sermon, then were commanded to repent. But I checked the BFM (1963), and it indicates that both faith and repentance flow out of regeneration, which happens before both. I think we both need to study this some more!"
I agree that regeneration is first and thus I referenced "effectual calling" and that both "faith and repentance are gifts from God" and they are given by grace in the work of "regeneration".
God Bless
CR
I posted "Paige Patterson stated, 'I see no biblical evidence for Irresistible Grace'. Hugh?"
You can view my blog to see what I've written on "Irresistible Grace"
God Bless,
CR
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